Half banana

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Posts by Half banana

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  40

  What if Fred Franz had never existed?

  by Magnum in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what if fred franz had never existed?.

  those of you who weren’t around in the days when he was the oracle of jwdom or who at least aren’t familiar with the deeper publications he was responsible for probably won’t be able to comprehend the significance of the question.

  i believe he influenced jwdom greatly, and the whole feel of jwdom would have been different without him.. during the 60’s, 70’s, & 80’s (not sure about 50’s), he was considered to be almost superhuman by some (a lot?

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  Half banana

  Good question Magnum!

  I agree with you Millie 210 that Jewish scholar friend of Freddie Franz was important grist to his Biblical mill. I saw and heard Franz when in his nineties at close quarters while working as a consultant at UK Bethel. An inoffensive even self deprecating man, his role in influencing the course of the JW org through the 20th century was I believe of prime importance.

  He had the role of being the back room theological boffin as I understood from Bethelites. He was the right hand man of the more business minded Knorr who would defer to Franz on points of “learned” doctrine. Remember for example that he told president Knorr that a governing body was not scriptural –as I understand.

  So Franz had smatterings of Greek and a fair understanding of the contents of the Bible which he expounded with certainty on the advent of Christ in very specifically his own day. He was baptized around 1914 and he saw his role elevated as God’s spokesman to declare 1975 as the fitting end of the (fictitious) six thousand years of the final seven, with one thousand to go for the final testing. All ideas clearly possible within the jumble of Bible texts.

  Like Russell, he felt he was certain about the revelation of his end-times doctrine and along with his connections at the top of the organisation this gave him the authority and platform to fully promote his delusions. For half a century this contributed to the Franz outlook on all things Watchtower.

  What Franz had was not logic... he always used non-sequiturs and wild but spiritually credible assumptions. His mindset and even his oratory I think, had echoes of Millerite preaching and date setting methods using faith in the Bible and a language of absolute certainty. If God is right and he cannot lie; therefore such and such. . .

  His teachings are now shown to be false and played down by the GB but his oratory style declaring absolute certainties on divine assumptions remains the most effective way of bamboozling the flock.

  So without FF who knows! but perhaps someone else would have taken up a similar cues to mislead JWs.
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  37

  April 2017 Study Watchtower encourages you to defy The Society !

  by BluesBrother in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  at least, that is how i see it... the article "the judge of all the earth always does what is right".

  paragraph 6 & 7 .

  6 consider the experience of willi diehl.

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  Half banana

  Thanks for posting this thought BB, It seems to set a precedent which will not help the interests of the JW org.

  It is demonstrating the profound wisdom of using common sense instead of obeying the governing body.

  Either the org is losing heart or they are softening up in the face of mass disillusionment among the flock. Whatever is behind this dilution of control, it gives the individual JW to make his own decisions on teachings.

  This reasonable approach means losing authority... without authority there is no control. JWs will start believing just what they want to.

  Good move GB!
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  45

  New light in this weeks WT?

  by Indian Larry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  anybody have any ideas where they are going with the "new light" they have been pushing last week and this week?

  for instance in this weeks study article one section reads:.

  in years gone by, we believed that jehovah became displeased with his people because they did not have a zealous share in the preaching work during world war i. we concluded that for this reason, jehovah allowed babylon the great to take them captive for a short time.

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  Half banana

  Baloney JW mythology!

  The very concept of “captivity to Babylonish religion” is cult talk. It depends on further modern myths such as the existence of such a thing as “True religion” which idea is not based on any reality just a religious imagination. None of this sort of talk goes beyond the closed loop of cultism, it makes no sense to outsiders but to know what these terms mean is to JWs, a badge of membership.

  However...................... if the idea that there was such a thing as true religion free from any influence of worldly or “Babylonish” beliefs and practices, then JWs would still not qualify in 1919 or ever.

  The fundamental teachings of the Bible are fully based on astrological stories and the mnemonics for transmitting them down through the generations in pre-literate times.

  Quintessentially it centres on the Sun god, his own male offspring born of a virgin at the third day of midwinter, sacrificed at the spring equinox and returned to his heavenly father in shining glory. At its root it is nothing more or less than the annual story of the Sun dressed up in mythical narrative.

  It is impossible to use the Bible as the basis for religious belief without reference to these folk tales whether from Babylon or elsewhere. There is very little material left in the scriptures if you peel away the pagan input.
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  25

  If the Org. confessed they were not God's org. Would you still be there and was that the main reason you stayed

  by tor1500 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i know you know who i am by now...the one that forgets to use paragraphs...anyway, all over all the jw sites (not jw.org).

  it's been asked if you knew this or that why did you stay...it's been discussed how no matter what you hit the friends with, failed dated, new lights, pedophiles, etc, yet they stay and you can't reason with them....so what i've come up with is that most stay because they feel it's god's org.

  and they were chosen in place of the jews.

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  Half banana

  Many are in the JW cult because it gives them an identity. They formerly did not know who they were or what the hell was going on. Becoming a JW gave them a platform to view the world, a very jaundiced viewpoint but a foothold, an anchorage point. The club they have joined is like a surrogate family; all deluded but a kind of family nevertheless and with an over the top hope of defying death and living in paradise.

  Putting a JW on the spot and telling them the org admits they are wrong only increases their grip on their futile delusion, even if there are paedophiles in the congos and corrupt elders and lying GB; the pain of losing club membership and loss of the ticket to paradise is too much to bear.
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  6

  Video of what happened when Trump was inaugurated.

  by Doctor Who in

  1. social
  2. humour

  i hope this can give everyone a little laugh!.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnebua39mni.

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  Half banana

  Simply hilarious! thanks Dr Who.
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  9

  UK The Times: "We need to do more to tackle sexual abuse among JWs"

  by darkspilver in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  article written by kathleen hallisey appearing on the website of the uk's times newspaper - the article does not appear (yet?

  ) to be in the print version.. kathleen hallisey is a senior solicitor at bolt burdon kemp, specialising in child abuse.

  she acted on behalf of the claimant in the landmark case of a v watchtower [2015] ewhc 1722 (qb), the first judgment against the jehovah’s witnesses in the uk for historical sexual abuse.. in the article she refers to the wt uk child safeguarding policy - click here for a side-by-side 2012/2017 comparision of the document.

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  Half banana

  @ The Searcher, it's not usual but by no means unlikely that super zealots with shun d/f people in the same house. My JW wife shunned me because I had left the org. She stopped talking with me-- it was very inconvenient dealing with the children.

  @ Darkspilver Unfortunately most JWs don’t read The Times. Nevertheless when the same information filters through to all media forms, it will become clear that all is not well in Watchtowerland.

  This negative publicity should discourage new converts and be the last straw for many captive doubters in the ranks.

  As you say Heaven it is unlikely that the GB will change because their power comes from their smug delusion that they are the only ones who are divinely inspired. They imagine that doing God’s will involves being known as the people who quote the Bible and champion literal applications of it, as with the “two witnesses” rule.

  Here’s the rub: to capitulate to secular law over the child abuse issue would expose a glaring inadequacy of Biblical wisdom... and Biblical wisdom is the premise for their existence.

  I think the JW org can only lose out.
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  63

  Is it possible to decline preaching in the carts?

  by Skepsis in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi folks,.

  i have a difficult dilemma.

  since i'm not pioneering any more, i'm reducing my hours wasted at that artifact known as cart or trolley.

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  Half banana

  Go for it skepsis, just sit there with your cart and read Crisis of Conscience and if anyone's interested recommend they read it as well.
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  28

  A problem for believers

  by Bugbear in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a problem for believers!.

  a majority of the world’s population acknowledge that they believe in a superior god or in their creator.

  they also claim that they have got this special understanding and knowledge of his will and his law.

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  Half banana

  Some thoughts on your comments Bugbear. You mention that a majority of people are religious believers and indeed that is true... but 51% would make a majority.

  In a world survey in 2015 by Win /Gallup interviewing nearly 64000 people it was found that only 63% are now religious.

  Among the least educated the figure is 80% believing in God.

  I don't know where you live but in the UK and western Europe the fascination with God is conspicuously less than in the USA.

  The figures I read were 4.7% of people in England attend church, In USA 40% are attenders but only 20% on a weekly basis.
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  8

  Attention all leaders of corporate organisations under threat!

  by Half banana in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  imagine you are on the governing board of a religious organisation with around eight million subscribers and an annual income of approximately a $billion (well it used to be!).

  you are about to be handed a mass of legal cases against you for concealing your negligent practice of concealing paedophiles in your congregations---followed by the prospect of a cascade of damning publicity?

  do you admit you were wrong and apologise unreservedly?.

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  Half banana

  @ schnell, perhaps Samuel Herd is the first 'awake' GB member but they won't let him leave.
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  10

  JW.org website and Matt 6:1-4

  by NikL in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  saw the news story on jw.org this morning about all the help they are sending to congo after flooding there.

  yay for them!

  oh wait!.

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  Half banana

  The JW org have to blow their own trumpet since no one else will. But why give to the Congo? Why, it is their star performer in terms of publisher increase!

  Not surprising they have a resonance with this country as it stands at the seventh from bottom in the league of backward countries, on the verge of civil war and therefore ideal new JW growth territory.

  When things look hopeless the Watchtower is like clutching a straw to save a drowning man.